Will Obama snuff out the great shining light of America?

large majority

Please, show me a completely non-partisan source for that statement? From all indicators that I've seen, that's completely untrue. The party of "NO" needs to get with the people and not their own political agenda.

Gallup says so along with every other polling. Figure it out.

No, but perhaps he can snuff out the great stinking pile of right wing hyperbole.

He couldn't possibly snuff that out it is way too large.

No, but perhaps he can snuff out the great stinking pile of right wing hyperbole.

Great line. Concise!

Woo, hoo! Oh joy! Ladies and Gentleman...tonight we come together...yet again...to celebrate our own division! If we can keep this going long enough, we may live to see our utter destruction...

Wee, wee, wee...the Audacity of ignorance.

I am shocked to learn that the Obamas are the very first First Family to take a vacation anywhere at taxpayer expense.

We must stamp out this unseemly frivolity at once for the good of the nation as well as the mental health of our friends on the right.

Woo, hoo! Wee, wee, wee...

Lisa partying! Yeah!!

celebrate our own division! If we can keep this going long enough, we may live to see our utter destruction...

Wee, wee, wee...the Audacity of ignorance.

And of course you'll own your own part in that won't you Lisa. (Sarc) in case you couldn't tell.

Can't beat 'em, join 'em....with so many like you who prefer the bickering...how would one survive in NV?! :)

Tryusinglogic;

our children are going to inherit our atomic weapons..........gee.... perhaps that's the shining light everyone is talking about that America brought into the world? i didn't understand it at first but now i got it? thanks for that heads up tryusinglogic. I tried logic, but i don't like where it leads me. So i stand humiliated in my own correction ..............Jefferson is correct........ ignorance is preferable to failure? What a paradox of sh@# logic is...........no offence to you tryusinglogic.....we are all idiots and whoever whats to led the way doesn't account for much more than what it says under such circumstances.

If you would be so gracious to forgive me for thinking myself better. As for the rest of you...don't be afraid of the water of humiliation.....is warm and relaxing after a hard day of fighting with my vanity, the ignorance and audacity of thinking i or someone else can stop this freight train of mistakes that is longer than the history of nations. Were all without a compass that points true north....leaders and followers.

I now have my confession in writing................I'm an idiot.......so don't trouble yourself insulting me..i did it for you...otherwise you can add vanity to your long list of mistakes as well.....besides I'mreally liking this humiliationthing. And the argument that no one knows the truth is undefeated. Its a small light right next to the healing waters of humiliation that I'm now sitting in. Its not much of a fire and it dont shine to bright because no one has been feeding the fire so.........ill throw a few logs on in hopes it will outshine that great and dreadful light of America that i spoke of.

And it seems...his own Dem/Indep Waterloo too....let the floodgates open...Osama and any terrorists will win...because, unfortunately for us....they have defined what "win" means...we have only defined what "neverending" means...

So shine sa good president, a cut above, rather, in this pied piper media world.-

So shines another pied piper leading the masses to their unsuspected deaths....can't blame war policy on MSM, media, or anyone but this President continuing and worsening policies of Bush

Lisa;

I owe you an apology as well. see post 3.2. I have resigned that were all going to hell in a hand basket so before we do i want to square with all i have offended so that i can go with whatever dignity i have left. accepting my ignorence is my bliss now. hope you find yours.....

Pdeuth, and to all who read;

I hear a lot of talk about America's entitlement programs, but nobody considers the trade imbalances with China, India, and Brazil as entitlement programs. For how many years did we consider China as most favored nation. Was this not an entitlement program of epic proportions? We need to rid ourselves of foreign goods produced at the expense of cheap labor and start producing our own stuff. This is another door that needs to be slammed shut. Until third world countries stop exploiting the desperateness of their citizens and pay them wages appropriate for their efforts, then and only then would I suggest opening the doors to our markets. Competition is only competition when it is fair. Free trade is a great idea, but until this imbalance can be corrected it amounts to no more than an entitlement program for third world countries who exploit their people.

Unfortunately, examples of logical reasoning, such as this, will never come to fruition unless genuine campaign finance reform is enacted. Until this is done the competition for elected office is as equally unfair as America's market entitlements to third world countries. If you do not like welfare then let's stop giving preferential treatment to country's that do not earn it fairly. If you think that welfare is unnecessary because of the many opportunity's that American offers then let's start with campaign finance reform and rid ourselves of the corporate welfare being handed out to our politicians.

Neither of these two problems are entitled any respect nor are they defensible.

Fufu;

Thank you very much for your observation as a person who has lived outside of the United States. Your observations graciously point to the audacity and arrogance of the author of this article (tryusinglogic) and unfortunately many Americans like him. Your first sentence reveals america's presumptuous attitude and false belief that economic and military power equals morality. I'm ashamed to say that many Americans, such is the author of this article, resist looking in the rearview mirror of morality and prefer to adorn themselves in the emperors clothing. Once again thank you for your unique viewpoint.

I can assure you that there's a billion and a half there that some think fondly of the United States and some do not, but none would consider the United States "the great shining light".

Okay, lets see. When the next great tragedy happens like the earthquake in Haiti and the US minds its own business, who will be demanding that the US give aid. How much aid did China give Haiti? Or how much did China give Louisiana during Katrina? Face it, the entire world depends on America when in crisis for their very survival, plain and simple. Why? Because we can't depend on anyone else to do what we do. And that, my dear, is because America is the shining beacon on the hill.

Well put Big Ern. Thank you.

It takes more than money to be a nation that the world looks up to and wants to follow. The United States does a lot of very good things in the world, not the least of which is how we respond to disasters around the world. On the other hand, many nations consider the United States to be a nation that interferes in their affairs and is heavy handed in how it responds to international issues. Many view the United States as hypocritical in relation to what it says and what it does.

My fundamental issue with this article is that the belief in American exceptionalism (also known as "America is the most bestest superduperest wonderfulest place that has ever existed in the history of the universe!" Syndrome) is highly damaging to our image abroad and leads us to policy mistakes, both domestically and internationally. The author may feel that the United States is the greatest country and that's wonderful. But the author should realize that one is only capable of making this determination for themselves. There are many others who would literally not live in the United States even if paid to do so. There are many in the nations that I lived in that feel that their country is by far the best place to life. It's all a subjective opinion.

My determination is that the United States is a pretty good country with more rights than wrongs. On the other hand, I don't want to be blinded by the good and not attempt to fix the wrongs. I don't want to be arrogant and ignore the world because of any misguided feeling that every other nation should seek to follow / emulate the United States. This is the type of arrogance that leads to the United States taking actions that result in intense hatred for the United States in various parts of the world. Yes, I'll say it, this is the type of arrogance that contributed to the motivations of various terrorists that have attacked Americans. It is a dangerous arrogance, it is not based in any kind of fact, and it does nothing beneficial for the nation to engage in hyper-nationalism.

(Note: By the way, China built a hospital in Haiti within a month, staffed it, and has been running it ever since. In addition, China provided about $10 million in financial aid in the first month after the earthquake.)

Actually, it is very refreshing to read a seed that is not anti-Christian, Conservative, heterosexual, legal immigration, Tea Party, Bush - need I go on?

And, you know, why does Michelle need a vacation to Spain? Oh, she works so hard! Some meetings, some speaking engagments? Heck, I did that and still cleaned house, cooked, grocery shopped, took care of my children, washed clothes, ironed clothes all by my little own self. And, it is arrogant and insensitive to take a trip of this nature when our people are hurting as badly as they are. I don't much like footing the bill for this nonsense. Let her stay home. Take a vacation in the U.S. Generate income here. Oh, her life is so tough!

We have a complex an difficult socieity to manage and it is becoming obvious to everyone that BO was not prepared and is daily making matters worse.

Speak for yourself please. What is obvious to me is that we are better off in August of 2010 than we were in August of 2008. I believe we'll be better off in August of 2011 and 2012 as well. I won't speak for others, but I'm willing to bet that there are others that agree with me.

FuFu,

I'm with you 100%.....what we also have is an increasingly unhinged minority who will seize on ANY opportunity to bash this President, either for not doing "it" their way, or not doing enough, or doing too much, or succeeding, or, for anything else.....The FACTS do not matter to these folks, nor does LOGIC.

FACT - we were/are in the worst recession since the Great Depression - one that STARTED in 2007.

FACT - George W. Bush ran a deficit for 7 of eight years; his final budget, left for President Obama included a $1.6 trillion deficit.

FACT - Obama's FIRST fiscal year began in September, 2009 and included the Stimulus, NOT TARP, which was a Bush plan (that's the one where we bailed out the banks and AIG.

FACT - Prior to the collapse of 2007, George Bush had the worst record of job creation since the Depression.....his NET job creation over 8 years was abysmal.

FACT - The job GAINS during Obama's term SO FAR (In 17 months) have almost eclipsed those of George W. Bush's entire 8 years.

FACT - one of the major reasons why states are currently hurting (financially) is that some $40 billion was cut out of the Stimulus that was intended to go directly to the states to shore up budget shortfalls due to decreased tax revenues....the GOP opposed this amendment/measure in total lockstep.

FACT - Obama is a natural born citizen, born in Hawaii and the son of an American citizen born in Kansas (just thought I'd throw that in there).

FACT - Obama is neither a racist, a Marxist, a socialist, a communist, a radical or a Muslim (thought I'd throw this in there too).

FACT - Obama is not "spending us into Oblivion", nor are Pelosi or the Democrats; he has actually proposed AND enacted spending cuts in several areas, and has implemented either deficit reducing or deficit neutral measures....the current deficit (for FY 2009-2010) is due to lower tax revenues (see Bush tax cuts, no Estate Tax, lower employment), the wars, Medicare Part D, TARP and (barely), the Stimulus.

FACT - some 30-40% of the Stimulus was TAX CUTS, and while allocated for projects/states, etc, much of the $700+ billion has not yet been spent

FACT - The GOP has voted in lockstep against nearly every measure, every bill, every proposal and every idea this President has had, even if it was one that originated with the GOP.

These are just some FACTS - sources for such facts (and many others) are easily found via the Google machine....I strongly recommend you (TryUsingLogic) and others actually look for them.

Sir, I think you misunderstand the nature of facts versus opinions. If that is your opinion, you're certainly entitled to feel that way. But there is a pretty fundamental difference between a fact and an opinion.

So, I see you can't refute the facts, so you deflect, insult and ignore.....classic "wingnut LOGIC". I knew better than to try and "debate" with you.....go hide under your rock because you MIGHT be disappointed with November's results.

uh huh.....

Bush may be gone, but in the interest of truth in this seed, you cannot disregard him as a destructive force to the fabric of this country. Obama did not do this alone, which is precisely the false premise the article is trying to make.

TryUsingLogic

Bush made mistakes...Clinton made mistakes.....Obama is a destructive naive president.

• 8 years of Bush
• 8 years of Clinton
• 18 months of Obama

good time comparisons. Let's see what history will say after Obama has 8 years.

Clinton made the economy go after the failure of Supply-Side Economics, which even David Stockton says was wrong.

Bush wasted money like a drunk sailor getting the country into 2 un-winnable wars without claiming it on the budgets (something Obama changed for the better).

Obama is just starting to clean up Bush's mess. I'll be happy to see him get the country out of the recession and keep it out of the hands of the republicans

Let's see what history will say after Obama has 8 years.

we won't have to worry about it if that happens because the country will have ceased to exist..our economy will have collapsed and their will be mayham in the streets...a mad max world of sorts......or obama will have accomplished his objective of bankrupting the country, driven businesses out of business, and have 80% of the population dependent upon gov. to survive..he would then declare that for the GOOD of the country he therefor has no choice but to institute marshall law and become dictator in chief........I want neither scenario but both of them are very real...

I'll be happy to see him get the country out of the recession and keep it out of the hands of the republicans

I'll be happy too if he gets us out of the recession..but guess what.? ain't gonna happen...obama is clueless when it comes to the economy..and frankly alot of people already have made up their minds that they are not voting for dems in NOV..and a lame duck pres. never wins re-election...

Vegas-

8 years of Bush

8 years of Clinton

18 months of Obama

Obama just works faster in his destruction...way more efficient in his approach...let's face it...he's smarter than the other two you mentioned...so he's not a guy who's going to placate us with a staggered approach...he's going for the gold...he has a legacy to create remember...destroying America seems to be his ticket to infamy

Obama just works faster in his destruction...way more efficient in his approach...let's face it.

Lisa,

What has he done to destroy the country? That is a real question.

I see that the party of NO has many followers on NV. NO this, NO that.

Keep believing there won't be a recovery in Obama's 8 years and watch the republican party of NO end up like the Whig Party.

The right tries to exploit Obama's 45% approval rating while trying to defend Bush's 22% approval rating?

There's no way to determine if 45% is the bottom end of the president's approval slide. I'd say it's even money that his approval numbers will crater like Bushie's.

There's no way to determine if 45% is the bottom end of the president's approval slide.

Not a very good response. I am responding to what tryusinglogic posted in post # 16, not trying to predict the future but what is. You didn't like the fact that I one upped him and you stretched trying to say that we don't know what Obama's rating will be in the future. So what?? It could go up if things improve. Try sticking to reality right now which is what we were posting about.

Actually...just FYI...Bushs' approval rating is now 38%...gee, guess this guy is actually making Bush look good....you'd have thought, right?

It's not unusual for people to forget the sins of others over time. It really doesn't have anything to do with the current admin. It's a natural phenomenon. You've heard the saying time heals all wounds? Some people even deny that the holocaust happened.

Taxes are not the answer. Taxes were at an all time low while outsourcing was at it highest but yet taxes were the blame. Bush wasted 700 billion on a bailout bill. 140 billion on the stimulus checks in 2008. Clinton raised taxes in the 90s and we had a good economy. Bush cut taxes and the unemployment rate went from 4% in Jan 2001 when Bush took office to almost 7.7% in Jan. 2009 when Bush left office. We had a 90% tax rate for the highest incomes in the 50s (corporate tax rate of almost 50 %) but yet we enjoyed one of the best economies and the largest middle class (which the right has a problem with) in US history.

I think if the bailout (even though it was issued in a reckless way) and stimulus packages had been withheld we would have had a depression. I guess we'll never really know. And if it would have happened all the right wingers would have blamed Obama for doing nothing.

gillantor, We NEVER lowered corporate income taxes, and we need to, especially payroll related corp taxes.

Y2K and dot com created short term booms; we need to lower taxes related to what we wish to stimulate (jobs) to create a lasting period of growth.

In addition, we were not efficient in the 50s; it took several times the manhours to produce less than we do today. We also had a smaller percentage receiving advanced education. So we need to evolve into a 21st century economy.

We NEVER lowered corporate income taxes

Sure we have. Not as much as personal income but it has been lowered. A link for you.

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02corate.pdf

We need to ( and have needed to for the past 20 plus years ) address our national debt. We cannot grow our economy large enough to fix it. We cannot compete with third world countries when it comes to tax rates. They have very little infrastructure to support. Reagan proved that the trickle down theory doesn't work. But if we don't fix the debt the tax issue won't matter.

We are still the 2nd highest on the planet. Try being your companies 2nd least efficient employee; see how long it takes them to fire you.

Unless one thinks the world only has 2 nations that are not third world, 2nd highest means all but one of developed world treats corps better.

I do agree on the debt issue; we need to greatly decrease social welfare/entitlement spending ASAP.

Going to crash now Bob. Maybe we can pick this back up tomorrow if you want to. I enjoyed posting with you. You obviously are an intelligent person. I respect your opinion even if we disagree on some things. If I don't hear back from you I hope you have a good weekend.

Oops I posted the firs paragraph and I see you have posted right before mine went up. I had a long day. I went to work at 5:00 (server repair) and three hours of classes before I got home to a family with three kids and a wife. I'm beat. Have a good night Bib what's left of it.

bob;

See my post above at 9.1

Exxon-Mobile paid zero taxes in the year 2010 while at the same time posting $35,000,000,000. (in its defense an Exxon spokesman stated; " Exxon will owe a substantial 2009 tax liability, but the company refuses to disclose it.) Hum! Rub your chin and scratch your head…..

Thanks Exxon for your sacrifices and contribution to our country.(Corporate welfare)

General Electric reported a pretax profit of more than $10 billion and paid nothing to the US Treasury. To add injury to insult, the U.S. Treasury paid General Electric a tax benefit of $1.1 billion against future profits.

Thanks to General Electric for bringing good things to life. (corporate bank robbery)

Bank of America made $4.4 billion and paid no corporate income tax. According to Forbes, BOA won't be doing so for years.

Thank you bank of America for the countless foreclosures and your contribution to the collapse of the American economy! (corporate freeloaders)

Chevron made $18.5 billion in pretax profits, and paid $200 million in U.S. corporate income taxes. (less than 10%)

Thank you Chevron for at least trying to pay your unfair share of taxes.

All this makes me wonder if Ronald Reagan had his pants zipper up when he used the term trickle!!!

For eight years, under the bush administration, The Carlyle group enjoyed a very lenient tax burden. They profited enormously during those eight years while the average American's wage has remained stagnant and in some sectors of the economy declined. Now in the face of a possible 4% tax hike under the Obama Administration the Carlyle group has decided it is in their best interest to invest $1.4 trillion (1/12 of the national debt) in third world countries such as China, Brazil, and India. According to Doing Business Database, all three of these countries have a higher effective and statutory tax rates. This leaves one to consider who is actually sabotaging the American economy.

Thanks Carlyle group for your gratitude to the American people. (economic extortion)

Report: Obama Launches New Program to Help Corporations "Take Advantage of Low Labor Costs" Abroad
by: David Sirota

Thu Aug 05, 2010 at 11:15

It appears that economic extortion is quite effective in getting what you want. (big money is bringing this country to its knees, or at lease the president.) I do not know about anybody else, but I'm beginning to feel as though I owe my life to the company store. If you don't know what this means, read the history of the coal Miners of Pennsylvania. We might once again be heading in that direction.

Correction to my post 18.7;

I do not consider China of third world country, seeing that, it purchases much of the U.S. debt.

that is why the " help " needs to be fired in Nov. ..this will effectively place handcuffs on obam and prevent him from doing anymore harm..

You can also add that the country surivived the mid to lates 1960's: lots of civil unrest and disobedience, riots in major cities, terrible losses in an unwinnable war, murder of respected and loved leaders and yes, uncertainty in the of the nation's future and its role in the world.

Yep. That too.

Still here.................. still gonna be here.

Augur,

And, I would say that as a country, we are now BETTER for surviving all of that (some good, some bad, some based on panic/ignorance/an attempt to sway the mindless drones).

Oh, and as a Southerner (and a Texan), I agree that the "South" should read their history books....but too many down here either can't read, or refuse to read anything by anyone that doesn't fit into their "bubble" or incredibly small, short-sighted, warped world view.

Wow. That's a tough one. It's pretty much sucks vs. SUCKS!

OK, question here: In your opinion, was the economy stronger under Ronald Reagan or G W Bush?

Loaded question there. The economy seemed to have improved from the Carter days. But it was a fake economy based on deficit spending. Consider the fact that the US national debt quadrupled during the 12 years of Regan/Bush. Anyone can make the economy artificially look good if they print money to boost the economy. All you are doing is taking out loans and stuffing it into the economy to prop it up only to be paid back with interest after their sorry as ses are dead and gone. Also consider the fact that in November of 2009 the US had to pay over 380 billion dollars in interests on those loans and at the end of this year we are slated to spend over 450 billion dollars in interest on the loans. I guess they don't look so great if you shine a little light on them do they? In all fairness I think most of the deficit was incurred under Reagan and Bush inherited most of the spending commitments from the previous administration.

Yes it was a loaded question but you took half the fun out of it with a reasoned explanation. The author was supposed to trash saint Ronnie as you've rightly done, or admin that Bush's lower tax rate didn't perform as advertised.

BO hasn't outspent his predecessors as you have suggested. He might be on track to but at this point he hasn't. I do believe however if you look at the circumstances surrounding the deficit spending between Obama, George W. Bush, and Regan/Bush, you can rationalize the Obama spending in comparison to the others. Take a look at the state of the economy when each president took office and come back to talk to me.

The shining light has been dimming consistently for decades.