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TRYUSINGLOGIC

Articles Posted: 62  Links Seeded: 9
Member Since: 4/2009  Last Seen: 4/30/2012

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Braindead = being stuck on spending, taxation and more debt as an economic solution for the free world....

Sat Aug 6, 2011 7:23 PM EDT
politics, taxes, debt, economics, socialism, conservatism, liberalism, reason
By TryUsingLogic
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There is a very important and undeniable fact of life.  We have learned without exception that at every personal/business level of prosperity and income, it is critical to live and budget within ones means.   That is a golden rule unless you are hopelessly enslaved by a totalitarian dictator.   Today we are watching in real time what happens in democracies when we elect politicians that promise easy street through government entitlements for all.   Today, in real time we are watching the failure of the EU, which is the perfect example of government spending without regard to incurred debt and oppressive taxation, as our naïve president openly proposes that European type socialism is the salvation of America.  

Obama has expanded entitlements, spending and debt to levels that has been praised by Liberals as the sure solution, while being opposed by conservatives and studies as irresponsible.

American Liberals say it doesn’t matter how much we spend because we can afford it…..at the same moment they are watching the European model of socialist economics crumble.  

Research shows spending cuts, not more spending and higher taxes, is the only way to successfully repair an economy.   Simple logic and reason can verify that Utopian dreaming by the Liberal mind is not the answer to economic recovery…...in America or anywhere else in the world.

http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/files/Large%2Bchanges%2Bin%2Bfiscal%2Bpolicy_October_2009.pdf

The countries Obama wants us to pattern ourselves after are failing, and our country under his is socialist guidance is struggling more than we ever have.

Freedom and liberal democracy will crumble from within, if we don’t vote to find leaders that will structure our spending needs to fit within our budget and stop our mad race to bankruptcy and dreams of Utopia.

And the sad point is we continue hearing the Liberal cry…..”We haven’t spent enough, taxed enough or entitled enough!”  

Obama’s social plan to be just like the EU is staring us in the face…….and it is a frightening image! 

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  • Public Discussion (55)
TryUsingLogic

If liberals say it enough.....will they change the historical fact that it just ain't so?

  • 3 votes
#1 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 7:25 PM EDT
teresa-498430

If right wingers, tea partiers and republicans say it.............then it is assuredly not true. We the American people are on to them. They went too far this time 98% Boehner and Co. They will be held accountable for destroying the full faith and credit of the United States with their agenda.

One more thing I will not buy the empty rhetoric you are trying to spread. Too many people did and look where it got our country and our people.

  • 17 votes
#1.1 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 7:44 PM EDT
GendoIkari

I'm getting real tired of these childish conservatives in constant denial mode concerning their massive contribution to this fiscal mess over the past 13 years.

Stop being an irrational Babylon monkey, and wake the @!$%# up.

  • 14 votes
#1.2 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 9:15 PM EDT
ryoushi12

Yeah, Germany's crumbling.

Oh, wait, until 2008 wasn't Germany the BIGGEST EXPORTER BY VALUE ON THE PLANET, and haven't they only just slipped behind China, to SECOND PLACE? And doesn't Germany, with its 75 MILLION people, full health care for ALL ITS CITIZENS, FULL PENSIONS, and an unemployment rate of SIX PERCENT export TWICE what the US does, which has NO UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, a POOR PENSION PLAN and unemployment at NINE PERCENT. ANd of course France also outexports the US, and we all know how bad it is to live in Scandanavia (nice place except for the murdering rightwing freemarket christain white scumbags) and the Netherlands.

Yep, our free market thing is really working out - hell, Misssissippi can now compete with COMMUNIST China toe to toe on the price of labor. Yep, soon we'll be just like China.

  • 13 votes
#1.3 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:14 PM EDT
littleboyblue

I agree with you T/U Logic. We can't spend ourself out of poverty. The Republicans have been accused of being the party of "no". IMHO, they are like the responsible parents telling the spoiled teenagers, "No I will not buy you a $200 pair of jeans," or "No, we can't afford to go to Disneyland this year." "No, you cannot have your own car until you can afford it."

The democrats whine, but it is for their own good. I see where now China is telling us to live within our means. They get it. Why can't the dems?

  • 8 votes
#1.4 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:38 PM EDT
TryUsingLogic

I agree with you T/U Logic. We can't spend ourself out of poverty

At least not everyone on newsvine is delusional......thanks

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:34 PM EDT
Silvaria

Try, interesting that you only respond to someone who agrees with you...in order to maintain a good debate, you may want to consider refuting the comment above that one.

Just sayin'... 8)

  • 5 votes
#1.6 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:45 PM EDT
TryUsingLogic

Oh, wait, until 2008 wasn't Germany the BIGGEST EXPORTER BY VALUE ON THE PLANET

It is being proposed now that Germany try and bailout the rest of Europe.....which would almost surely bankrupt their economy. Do you deny that the EU is on the edge of collapse....especially if our economy fails?

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:58 PM EDT
gillanator

We have learned without exception that at every personal/business level of prosperity and income, it is critical to live and budget within ones means.

That would have been a good principle to have had in mind when we started two unfunded wars which resulted in nearly doubling our national debt.

Taxes have been the accepted way to fund and pay off debt incurred by wars. This goes back to the first tax imposed by this country. Something people seemed to have forgotten. You article seems to echo something most have had to grow up with. Don't go shopping if you have no money. Don't start wars if you are unwilling to pay for them.

  • 6 votes
#1.8 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 7:51 AM EDT
Wizeguy

when we started two unfunded wars

2 wars forgot to pay for them, huge giveaway to big Pharma forgot to pay for it, tax breaks for the wealthy to create jobs didn't happen,.

We are now seeing the results of 10 years of failed policy...make that 30 years...the ying has finally yanged...

  • 4 votes
#1.9 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 8:07 AM EDT
FLYNAVY1

TUL

This is I believe the first piece that I have read that you have seeded. The responses of 1.5 & 1.6 pretty much exemplify your mindset. It would seem you are just another purvayor of the same failed conservative economic policy that has gotten the country in the dire straights we face today. Same song and dance from the right that we have seen for 30 years.

I'll give it to you with the bark on..... Until the party of "deficits don't matter" takes responsibility for their run up of the national debt, AND stop protecting the well heeled at the expense of the rest of the country, pretty much expect to be considered enemies of the state. Does the liberal approach have flaws... sure does, but their approach makes much more sense for the greater body of citizens than the conservative approach. Stop being the party of "has no shame, and takes no blame.", and you will have taken the first step to "Plays well with others.". The right gets failing grades there, and has for some time.

  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 9:18 AM EDT
TryUsingLogic

"Don't go shopping if you have no money. Don't start wars if you are unwilling to pay for them"

"It would seem you are just another purvayor of the same failed conservative economic policy that has gotten the country in the dire straights we face today"

"2 wars forgot to pay for them, huge giveaway to big Pharma forgot to pay for it, tax breaks for the wealthy to create jobs didn't happen"

Actually we have 3 wars now.....All of you sound like a stuck record!

America's and the EU's debt is entirely casued by social entitlements not war. If we had not fought wars to protect our right to freedoms, there would not be fat cat politicans around to reward their fans with "free goods"! Nothing is free......we need more individual's that understand resposibility instead of "give me, give me"!

Newsvine is swamped with liberals who seem to have nothing else to do but praise the failing state of Big Government socialism........while blaiming everything on those who cling to the original American dream of freedom, liberal democaracy and capitalism.

There is nothing more redundant and tiring than the Utopian liberal/left!

  • 2 votes
#1.11 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 10:53 AM EDT
gillanator

America's and the EU's debt is entirely casued by social entitlements not war.

You know TUL I was really expecting more than just right wing partisan garbage from you, having read your bio. The statement above is pure nonsense. You are trying to claim that wars cost the tax payer nothing? And then you try the already failed attempt to justify the Iraq war on what was it?

to protect our right to freedoms,

You hit it right on the head. Because I got to tell you I know I couldn't sleep nights until I knew my family was safe from Saddam Hussein. I literally saw thousands of people everyday cowering on the streets waiting to be attacked by the millions of Iraqis led by Uday. /s

while blaiming everything on those who cling to the original American dream of freedom, liberal democaracy and capitalism.

With liberty and justice for all... Amen.

I don't know of anyone talking about doing away with capitalism because they feel that we should follow the course that we started by paying off our debt by using cut and tax increases. No different than what Eisenhower did. I believe capitalism was very much alive and well, while we paid down our war debt. As far as capitalism, I believe it should be required to work with integrity and accountability. Not the BS wall street fiasco we encountered in the past 15 years.

  • 5 votes
#1.12 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:57 AM EDT
TryUsingLogic

You are trying to claim that wars cost the tax payer nothing?

I have never said that.......false statement on your part!

As far as capitalism, I believe it should be required to work with integrity and accountability.

I agree, but Big Government socialization does contain integrity or accountability......we can see that as we watch the economic turmoil in the world. Capitalist should not break laws......socialists should not impound our rights and freedoms. We all have universal rights that are clear and accepted by world organizations.

America's strengths came from capitalism and prosperity......our weakness grows as we infuse unmanagable social entitlements. Obama has the weakest revenue as % of GDP since World War II.......after spending 800 billion on infrastructure. The Obama regime is failing......chanting "yes we can" over and over wil not change things.

  • 2 votes
#1.13 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 12:11 PM EDT
gillanator

praise the failing state of Big Government socialism

Funny....It seems to me our last administration did a pretty fair job of increasing the size of our government now didn't they?

  • 3 votes
#1.14 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 12:14 PM EDT
FLYNAVY1

TUL

It's not even worth addressing the worn-out, mind-numbing, nonsensical, canned conservative propoganda that you have posted. When you move beyond that which is akin to bumper sticker thinking, and post something that is thought provoking, then there can be discussion and a meaningful exchange. Till then I will leave you in your far right corner with the falsehoods you covet.

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 3:08 PM EDT
gillanator

You are trying to claim that wars cost the tax payer nothing?

I have never said that.......false statement on your part!

Really?? Then how is it you can post this:

America's and the EU's debt is entirely casued by social entitlements not war.

Did Bush prepay the wars??? We are still adding to the total. So how do you justify the above quote? Can you please give un-partisan proof to this?

  • 2 votes
#1.16 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 9:42 PM EDT
Reply
TryUsingLogic

The faith and credit of the USA is being destroyed under the madness and direction of Barack Obama.....if you haven't noticed?

Your response is just tired liberal babble...... Obama was going to fix us..... He does have us in a real fix!

  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 8:04 PM EDT
mstanley2265

TryUsingLogic, well since the Constitution is written in English, more and more people understand that Congress is the TAX and SPEND part of the US Federal Government.

Y'll keep doing the Blame the President Game, see how far it gets you with the Other Rating Firms. Those are Money people, they want to see Congressional Action on a Balanced Budget. If the Revenues don't come up to par, oh well, Down go the Ratings. The piddly amount that Congress whistled up isn't near enough over 10 years but the Presidential Proposed Budget was, $4 trillion over 10 years with tax reform. Oh by the way, France did just that in April of 2011, you know the Balanced Budget approach? They got to keep their Triple A rating.

  • 8 votes
#2.1 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 8:46 PM EDT
teresa-498430

TyrUsingLogic, Try using logic.

  • 10 votes
#2.2 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 9:24 PM EDT
arkpdx

mstanley2265

well since the Constitution is written in English, more and more people understand that Congress is the TAX and SPEND part of the US Federal Government

This is a true statement. Therefore it was the Republicans that should be credited with the balanced budget and the surplus of the 90's not clinton. It should be the democrats that get the blame for the economic failure in 2008 since they were in control of congress. I is the democrats that are to blame for the past two years of economic stagnation and doubling of the debt and the over spending for the same period again since they were in control until early this year.

Balanced budget amendment passed and have tried to get one at least 12 times. they wee looking to cut spending and cap it. but that was stopped also. So who is to blame?

  • 6 votes
#2.3 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:59 PM EDT
TryUsingLogic

Congress is the TAX and SPEND part of the US Federal Government.

There can be reasonable spending within our means.....but there is Obama's calamity!

I am the tax and spend person of my business......reason and balance is required not to go belly up! Why is that so hard for the Liberal mind to understand or accept?

  • 4 votes
#2.4 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:54 PM EDT
Jim Comfort

Y'll keep doing the Blame the President Game, see how far it gets you with the Other Rating Firms.

Just out of curiosity, who does the left like to blame for the 2001-2009 period economically?

  • 5 votes
#2.5 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 12:53 AM EDT
grumpy_jon

Why is that so hard for the Liberal mind to understand or accept?

It's not hard to understand at all. It is your condescending tone, included in your tag, that offends. You sound like everyone should fall down and worship you as the fountain of all knowledge and truth.

The truth is, we are in this mess because a bunch of conservatives wanted everyone to believe that cutting our income (revenues) by 10%-20% would lead to wealth and prosperity. Sometimes it works in business; it has never worked in government. These are the same people, when asked why they don't go to their employers and demand an equal cut in their salary, just excuse away the question.

As a ratio to GDP, our revenues never recovered from the hosing that it got from the 2 tax cuts. Instead, we increased our debt by almost double. Where is the logic in that? Why are you complaining about that lack of logic.

I will agree that the stimulus was misdirected; it should have been purposefully directed at infrastructure repairs that are desperately needed. That would have also increased good paying construction jobs, which might have helped a lot more. That was, truly, a misstep, but not a big enough one to want the people who doubled the debt by thinking that only the government can get wealthy by cutting its income.

  • 2 votes
#2.6 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 2:21 AM EDT
Wizeguy

There can be reasonable spending within our means

Who decides what is reasonable? Is it reasonable to build a fighter jet and not repair our crumbling infrastructure? Is it reasonable to give big oil subsidies while throwing granny under the bus by cutting Medicare? Let me know where we draw the line...

  • 2 votes
#2.7 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 8:01 AM EDT
TryUsingLogic

The truth is, we are in this mess because a bunch of conservatives wanted everyone to believe that cutting our income (revenues) by 10%-20% would lead to wealth and prosperity

The crash of the economy was caused by Fannie and Freddie under the failed guidance of Barney Frank and the Democrats. Where is the uproar about all the profit taking by Obama cronies that happened during that time period. Two of them are now trusted BO advisers

http://www.amazon.com/Reckless-Endangerment-Outsized-Corruption-Armageddon/dp/0805091203

Get your facts straight.....

  • 1 vote
#2.8 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:04 AM EDT
TryUsingLogic

Who decides what is reasonable? Is it reasonable to build a fighter jet and not repair our crumbling infrastructure?

It is better to do both......fueled by a prosperous economy not being over regualated and handing out uncontrolled entitlements.

Doing the right thing does not have to be a direct path to bankruptcy. We have to deal with that everday in our personal lives.

  • 1 vote
#2.9 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:10 AM EDT
Wizeguy

It is better to do both

Without collectiing additional revenue??? What gets cut my SS or Medicare???

uncontrolled entitlements.

I put into the system for 40 plus years there is no entitlement it is what I earned...

    #2.10 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 12:05 PM EDT
    grumpy_jon

    The crash of the economy was caused by Fannie and Freddie under the failed guidance of Barney Frank and the Democrats.

    Its easy to make an argument about something when you only want to insult one side; however, that is nothing close to logical. As a systems programmer, I have to think logically all day, every day. Your's is not logic. Logic dictates that every other company, BofA, Chase, Merrill Lynch, et al, (all of those wonderful Republican cronies) were equally complicit in the mortgage mess. Equally true is the Republican mantra in that it was all the fault of the homeowner who tried to buy too big, not the real estate agent who pushed the higher prices houses on the rhetoric of "affordability" or the mortgage companies, who pushed those "affordable" mortgages upon an unsuspecting public with public lies. Where is the outrage when they are concerned?

    You are not logical; you sound just like any other political hack. Try using logic for a change of pace and we can disagree cordially.

      #2.11 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 3:08 PM EDT
      Reply
      Steve Allen-2200609

      I'm carrying this over from another thread:

      http://redsfan.newsvine.com/_news/2011/08/04/7250583-cantor-entitlement-promises-frankly-are-not-going-to-be-kept-for-many?threadId=3190436&commentId=56775575

      To quote myself: "Sooner or later the whole economic system collapses on the weight of prices and salaries/wages with the net result of the very rich, in terms of actual wealth, double, triple, quadruple that wealth when the economic system collapses with the resulting collapse of prices and wages/salaries.

      It's what happened in 1929. It's what has happened with frequent regularity during the history of the United States if one simply looks on the internet for America's recession/depression economic history, and it's what is going to happen again.

      What most dont realize is economic collapses do not effect the wealthy in a reduction of wealth prior to the collapse. The wealthy actually cause the collapse as they convert paper wealth into tangible wealth.

      Side note: On July 31,2011, 60 Minutes's Leslie Stahl did a piece on Brazil's booming economy, when every other countries economy is in recession. Yet we do not see legions of people from Mexico, Central and South America, migrating to Brazil because of the jobs available there. We see them migrating to America.

      If America doesn't have jobs, it's economy is in recession with no end in sight, then why are people from Mexico, Central and South America continue to come to America rather than Brazil? It's not for the jobs, when there's 9% to 10% unemployment.

      Same with Western Europe. Why go to Western European countries who's economies are in recession, jobs scarce?

      A possible answer is that Brazil doesn't offer to subsidize education, medical care, food, even rent, to the poor through social programs, but the United States and Western Europe does.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#3 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 9:07 PM EDT
      ryoushi12

      Exactly. The fact of the matter is that the Great Depression did NOT start in 1929 with the paper crash on wall street - it was already underway by the fall of 1928 as orders slowed down and a consumer base maxed out on credit (yes, consmuer credit was a big deal during the 1920's) stopped buying goods, causing greedy jack-ss business men to fire their workers (who were getting less and less of the moderate rises in productivity that did occur during the 20's), further reducing consumer spending and on and on. Meanwhile, the conartists on wall street kept peddling their increasingly overpriced wall paper, until reality finally caught up with the imaginary wall street world.

      And also right on wealth concentration being the bane of economic growth. The period from 1870-1900 saw average gdp growth of about 1.7%. From 1930-39 GDP averaged 1.9%, including three YEARS of MAJOR contraction 1930-33 (at LEAST 25% per Year) and one serious contraction in 1937, AFTER Roosevelt passed a BALANCED BUDGET with DRAMATIC CUTS to most New Deal programs (the economy shrunk about 7%) The most SUSTAINED and BALANCED growth the US has seen since the Civil War was the period from 1940-1980 when income distribution was at its MOST EQUAL.

      • 2 votes
      #3.1 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:26 PM EDT
      Reply
      Joanna Caroll

      as our naïve president openly proposes that European type socialism is the salvation of America.

      I must have missed that speech. The only people calling Obama a socialist are the paranoid and the stupid and neither of those two groups could define socialism or liberalism or logic (ahem).

      • 10 votes
      Reply#4 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:17 PM EDT
      btco

      No kidding, Obama is no socialist. Anyone who writes this is NOT looking really hard for the truth.

      I love that very conservative economists at very conservative think tanks are calling for NOT more trickle down, but trickle up economic changes. About time they got something right for a change. This particular irony is lost on this crowd that calls Obama a socialist.

      We cannot cut our way to prosperity right now. Cannot happen, it is impossible.

      We can invest in our greatest resource that is sitting on the sidelines getting their collective asses kicked. The American people.

      • 3 votes
      #4.1 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 2:25 PM EDT
      Joanna Caroll

      Anyone who writes this is NOT looking really hard for the truth.

      Their only "truth" is in their hate for liberals. Even here, TUL (the writer of this article) writes with a palpable hatred and fear towards liberals. The American people are this country's biggest asset; that truth is lost on this crowd, too. Ah, the patriotic right who hate half the citizens in this country.

      • 2 votes
      #4.2 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 2:44 PM EDT
      Reply
      Lisafrequency

      America's economy is going to crash the sooner we allow the correction the faster we can recover the more we drag it out the worse it will be.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#5 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:55 PM EDT
      mstanley2265

      153.7 people are employed in the US. The correction should not be a crash, and if a crash does occur, the last one took 10 years to rehabilitate, a lot of gov't intervention via regulations, etc and WWII. If that scenerio is palatable, let us know. Because a WWIII would go nuclear.

      America's 'crash' then also resulted in other nation's crashes. Of course, hurting people that we Don't know is a kindness of sorts I suppose just not for them

        #5.1 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:06 AM EDT
        Lisafrequency

        If the cost of permits and licensing could go down more people could employ themselves.

        http://lisafrequency.newsvine.com/_news/2011/08/07/7291177-licensing-and-permitting-laws-barriers-to-upward-mobility

        • 1 vote
        #5.2 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 3:45 PM EDT
        Reply
        Jake-991574

        OK nothing more brain dead than to keep hitting your head against the wall. Herbert Hoover cut government spending = Great depression. 1937 Roosevelt under Republican pressure to reel in expenditures of New Deal again a relapse of the Great depression. Who will prime the pumps? Corporations Hell No they hang on to there assets even tighter in an economic down turn. Only the Federal Government can pump enough juice into the system to move the economy along. Go ahead keep banging yer head against the wall HERBERT.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#6 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:16 PM EDT
        TryUsingLogic

        Go ahead keep banging yer head against the wall HERBERT.

        Even the Socialist Prophet embarrassingly Krugman admits that the War saved the economy for Roosevelt. The New Deal had failed with its massive spending programs. We build a prosperous economy by investing in purchases from private businesses to save Europe and freedom. And we are still trying to figure out how to pay for the misguided social programs Roosevelt started! Handouts don't build stable economies.

        Dream on.......

        • 4 votes
        #6.1 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:47 PM EDT
        Jake-991574

        check 1937, Herbert;

        check the spending reduction and the contraction of the economy. As far as "economic solution for the free world" well that's another story. Quite frankly we are done growing economies, the capitalistic experiment has failed it is nothing but a ponzi scheme through and through. We have reached a point where there is no longer enough energy resources to be "taken". We are resource depleted and population rich. There is no future for the corporate masses. It will be a brave new world which the few will inherit, or the cockroaches.

        Handouts don't build stable economies.

        nor does unrestricted growth in the face of limited resources

          #6.2 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 2:11 AM EDT
          Reply
          Lisafrequency

          "The ICC [Interstate Commerce Commission] illustrates what might be called the natural history of government intervention. A real or fancied evil leads to demands to do something about it. A political coalition forms consisting of sincere, high-minded reformers and equally sincere interested parties. The incompatible objectives of the members of the coalition (e.g., low prices to consumers and high prices to producers) are glossed over by fine rhetoric about “the public interest,” “fair competition,” and the like. The coalition succeeds in getting Congress (or a state legislature) to pass a law. The preamble to the law pays lip service to the rhetoric and the body of the law grants power to government officials to “do something.” The high-minded reformers experience a glow of triumph and turn their attention to new causes. The interested parties go to work to make sure that the power is used for their benefit. They generally succeed. Success breeds its problems, which are met by broadening the scope of intervention. Bureaucracy takes its toll so that even the initial special interests no longer benefit. In the end the effects are precisely the opposite of the objectives of the reformers and generally do not even achieve the objectives of the special interests. Yet the activity is so firmly established and so many vested interests are connected with it that repeal of the initial legislation is nearly inconceivable. Instead, new government legislation is called for to cope with the problems produced by the earlier legislation and a new cycle begins."
          — Milton Friedman (Free to Choose: A Personal Statement)

          • 3 votes
          Reply#7 - Sat Aug 6, 2011 11:55 PM EDT
          Handshake

          The countries Obama wants us to pattern ourselves after are failing, and our country under his is socialist guidance is struggling more than we ever have.

          Just look at those poor northern European countries, for instance.

          Scandinavian countries, despite having welfare states more or less double the size of that in the U.S. (as proportions of GDP), have grown faster than the U.S. throughout the post-World War II period. Even after 1990 (1990-2008), when the U.S. was supposed to have entered an economic renaissance (well, at least until the 2008 crisis), the two fastest growing economies, in per capita terms, in the core OECD group were Finland (2.6%) and Norway (2.5%), with the U.S. notching up only 1.8%, tied with Sweden. If we count only the 2000s (2000-2008), the growth rates of Sweden (2.4%) and Finland (2.8%) were far superior to that of the U.S. (1.8%).

          Source.

          Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands are also in a pure mess. Terrible, just terrible.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#8 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:04 AM EDT
          TryUsingLogic

          "the capitalistic experiment has failed it is nothing but a ponzi scheme through and through"

          The capitalistic experiment is failing by being transfused with socialism!

          Nothing is perfect.....but spread the wealth socialism is a historical failure.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#9 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:23 AM EDT
          teresa-498430

          Is your hat too tight?

          • 2 votes
          #9.1 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 2:45 PM EDT
          Jake-991574

          Without "being transfused with socialism" social discontent would bring chaos and revolution.

          "Nothing is perfect.....but spread the wealth socialism is a historical failure."

          In the course of human history all previous economic systems have failed. Socialistic values have bought our current system time, time that is running out. (save for possibly hunter gatherers)

            #9.2 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 2:56 PM EDT
            Reply
            SciThinker

            obviously the seeder has not attempted what his name directs. keep living the republibagger ideology. got your blinders on tight? tv tuned to faux news? radio to rush limpballs? then you[re all set. I commend the people that have tried to direct this person to facts about how we got to where we are, but having read his ideological retorts, will not even attempt it. useless seed.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#10 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 3:16 PM EDT
            Helpmeunderstand1

            …..”We haven’t spent enough, taxed enough or entitled enough!”

            TUL - This is not the cry of Liberals, it's what you want to believe is their mantra. These are your words, not theirs. Most Liberals admit that there has been extravagant and wasteful spending in government and agree that we need to reduce spending. And, because they have jobs just like Conservatives, they too feel the crunch of high taxes. But they also recognize some inequalities in who bears the brunt of these taxes and they understand the need for taxes. Also, because they are humane and civilized, they accept that some of the less fortunate will receive more entitlements than others. Most of us are in agreement that we need to get rid of the pork, but we do not believe in being reckless and in so doing take down the Country. Change in this case needs to be deliberate but gradual. It's the Liberals who are being logical and the Conservatives are being kneejerk reactionists.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#11 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 3:59 PM EDT
            Lisafrequency

            But they also recognize some inequalities in who bears the brunt of these taxes and they understand the need for taxes. Also, because they are humane and civilized, they accept that some of the less fortunate will receive more entitlements than others.

            Elderly and handicapped for sure need their entitlements everybody else needs to get up and find some kind of work. I think food stamps need to stay too until the market turns around. The price of permits and licensing needs to go down so people can create their own jobs and work for themselves if all the big corpo wants to go over seas let them and charge tariffs for their products to be shipped in. Lift the restrictions on farming(make hemp legal) and stop paying big bucks to "farmers" living on 5th ave NY not to grow food.

            It is a crime against the people of the USA for hemp to be illegal you might think it does not matter but it does it has been illegal for so long that most folks don't even remember this very useful healing crop being legal. We need a new market to bring new life and new jobs. I can't believe everyone keeps saying we need to create jobs when the prefect way to do it is so easy as planting hemp.

            We could stop deforestation in it's tracks and which is a major part global warming.

            What other thing can make food, clothing, paper, fuel. plastics, building materials, livestock feed and more? Hemp is the only thing I kno of that does all these things.

            People keep crying about the billionaires take them down a notch make hemp legal. Then they would have some real free market competition.

            And while we are at it get Monsanto's poison seeds our of our lands and let them go kill off some other planet or something leave out world alone.

              Reply#12 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 9:57 PM EDT
              Helpmeunderstand1

              Lisa - Hemp is not our salvation. It's a typical simple solution presented by those wanting to make a fast buck (or to get high without recourse), but will do nothing to solve the complicated economic issues facing the world. Hemp is legal in many third world countries, so why aren't they flourishing?

              In any case, you're missing the point of this article which claims Liberals are "Braindead". I believe Liberals are open-minded and seeking realistic solutions to our problems. I'm all for making the fat corporations pay their fair share of taxes, but I don't think lowering their workforce so another workforce can exist is the answer. We need to preserve and grow both. Robbing Peter to pay Paul doesn't work. And believe me, deregulation would make it even easier for the big guys to wipe out the little guys. What makes you think Monsanto wouldn't move into the hemp business and walk all over the little guys. Hmmm, are you saying that the little guys need more government protection?

                Reply#13 - Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:17 PM EDT
                TryUsingLogic

                In any case, you're missing the point of this article which claims Liberals are "Braindead".

                After reading the liberal babble in the answers here......Liberals are Braindead!

                I agree....Robbing Peter to pay Paul doesn't work......it is pure socialism.

                Waste of time to discuss this subject with liberals........ but I already knew that.....

                • 1 vote
                #13.1 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 12:17 AM EDT
                Joanna Caroll

                Waste of time to discuss this subject with liberals........ but I already knew that.....

                Someone needs to practice their discussion skills. If you thought an article about brain-dead liberals was a good way to talk about the economy, you were really, really wrong.

                  #13.2 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 1:49 AM EDT
                  Lisafrequency

                  Helpmeunderstand-

                  People cannot get high on hemp. It is a crop that has many many uses. I guess the reason 3rd world countries can't pull out of their slump where hemp is legal is because the big bad USA has a choke hold on the fiber, fuel, and food industries market and only Monsanto and friends are allowed to make money in that market. Learn a little about the history of hemp before you rule out the possibilities it could afford.

                  Sometimes hen things are very complex the only solution is something simple.

                  • 2 votes
                  #13.3 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 6:53 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  TryUsingLogic

                  If you thought an article about brain-dead liberals was a good way to talk about the economy, you were really, really wrong

                  Acutally the liberal reaction here clearly makes my point.

                  First, they are in denial of the real situation.....and then curse all conservatives.....even an independent like me.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#14 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 10:49 AM EDT
                  Helpmeunderstand1

                  Trying to have a logical discussion with you is illogical and a waste of time. I'm sorry I wasted mine.

                  • 3 votes
                  #14.1 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 7:54 PM EDT
                  TryUsingLogic

                  The "Hope and Change President" just presided over the largest stock market drop since 2008. Maybe he should work on his plan?

                  Oh....it appears he doesn't have one!

                  • 1 vote
                  #14.2 - Mon Aug 8, 2011 10:26 PM EDT
                  Reply
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